BLACK
FLAG
This month's assignment was to corner BLACK FLAG
and squeeze an interview out of them. Tonight they were
headlining at the On Broadway, in San Francisco. Every
other letter THRASHER receives either demands BF
coverage, claims allegiance as one of their loyal follow-
ers, or adorns the envelope with the familiar four bar logo,
the word RULES scrawled beneath it.
The band has an explosive past (a fact that was hard to
imagine when confronting the members, who were quiet
and polite). Their views are not that of the middle-class la-
borer-follower, but that of an expressive-concerned form
of thought. They're angry and they care about what is hap-
pening to the youth populace of the world. To hear them is
to hear fury and turbulence (which is condemned by many
adults and upper-class type people), but there is more tur-
bulence and fury (with the addition of death and killing) in
other parts of the world that their condemners directly or
indirectly support by their inactions or actions. This youth
just wants to avoid getting involved with this other fury,
and who's to blame them? It's their life, not some freak be-
hind a desk with a finger on a button. Is BLACK FLAG one
of the solutions? Are they an answer? Take them as you
might to judge or misjudge. Regardless of all the pros and
cons, they are here, and they are BLACK FLAG.
Mofoto
-Vlaadmir
Henry Rollins
First of all, to start off, do you
want to say who you are?
HR: This is Henry, from BLACK
FLAG.
GG: And I'm Greg Ginn.
How long has BLACK FLAG
been together as a unit?
HR: Five years. Yeah, over five
years.
that?
It's inception has gone
you give me a rundown on
through several stages, could
GG: It's hard to say briefly.
HR: As far as BLACK FLAG is
concerned, our first singer was
Johnny Bob" Goldstein. "Johnny
Bob" went and formed a popular
L.A. band (Circle Jerks) and then
we got Chavo. Chavo left after
about a half a year. He went to
Canada to go hang out with his
Gator," Dez Cadena.
girlfriend, and then we got the
GG: He plays guitar now.
HR: And now we've got me. Now
the drummers, we had Robo...
GG: It was actually Mick before
that, Mick Doll...
HR: Oh yeah, Mick Doll, a
drummer, he played on Nervous
Breakdown. But he went and
freaked out somewhere, and
now he's hanging out in the
South Bay.
GG: On placedils...
HR: Yeah, and then we got
Robo, and Robo got tired of
being poor, so he bailed, now it
looks like he's gonna be drum-
ming in the Misfits.
We had a guy named Emil
Johnson. Emil was with us this
last tour, but he wants to surf
and hang out. He's like a Santa
Monica type, and touring and the
things we do aren't for everybody,
you know. He just wasn't into it
all the way.
Too grinding on the little guy,
huh?
HR: Oh well, he put out real
hard.
GG: Not that so much as he's
got a girlfriend and stuff. We're
always on the move.
HR: We never stop to really kick
back at home and he's into a
real home scene.
That's another thing, you guys
really move around a lot. Give
me a brief rundown on how
you operate like that.
GG: Well, we kinda weren't able
to do anything the first part of
this year. I don't know if you
knew anything about the
situation...but now that we've got
the band all in one piece and no
one's having any operations....
HR: Yeah, we have a new drum-
mer.
What's his name?
Is that the blonde guy that
acted like he was out of his
mind?
GG: No, he's not out of his mind,
he just talks like that, it's one of
his personas.
HR: He's like me, half the time I
talk like that.
So how much of the time
would you say you're on the
road now?
GG: Well, we would like to be 99
percent of the time, but with all
our problems, it hasn't worked
out like that. We like to play a lot
you know, to play to different
of different places. It's different,
people.
HR: The thing to do is to play
live, play to a lot of people and
practice. You know, do new
songs, do old songs, playing
whenever, whatever, but that's
our thing. We have a real solid
not always easy to get out of
unit, we tour a lot. We try to, it's
LA. and get a tour set up and
go. You don't just get out there
and say, "Here we go." It takes a
lot of work. So does anything
else.
I was in a band and you guys
were supposed to come up
and play with us. You have a
lot of mechanical problems,
don't you?
HR: What band?
Los Olvidados.
HR: Uh huh.
You guys were supposed to
play Holmes Hall in San Jose.
HR: Oh, man, San Jose (with
remorse and a hand to the
forehead).
GG: San Jose is our jinx town.
For as many places as we've
played, we've had very few
things like that ever happen to
US.
What happened?
HR: Did the sound check, went
to go do an interview in the city
(S.F.), two-thirds of the way
there we ran out of gas.
GG: We didn't have any money,
so we went up there and did the
interview. San Jose must hate
US.
What about some of the riot
scenes that the cops close
up? I was at Baces Hall. That
was radical.
GG: Yeah, it was terrible in fact.
I got wailed on.
HR: Okay then. Now you know
Punk Rock violence.
Yeah, I know that, regardless
of what I know...
GG: Yeah, that kind of thing
became a common occurrence
for a long time.
HR: About three or four shows in
a row, huh?
HR: His name is Chuck Biscuts, That was along the lines of
he's from D.O.A.
assault, though. They blocked
off the whole block and came
in and swept the place up.
HR: Well, okay, that happens a
lot of times. People in a position
of power will violently oppress
change, that's all there is to it. I
mean, it's going on all over the
world, it's gone on since the
beginning of time. People
violently oppress change.
That's what you firmly be-
lieve?
HR: That's what I know.
GG: Not everybody that has
power, but wherever there is
power, that happens to some ex-
tent.
I've yet to see those guys.
HR: Oh man, D.O.A. is hot. Did
you catch Minor Threat when
they were out here?
Wanted to, but wasn't able to.
Jello kept calling me and
telling me to go.
HR: I caught them down in L.A.
They were so hot. It was so ex-
citing.
I was on Muni, there were
about 10 heavy metal guys
and their "blasters" with these
chicks in their tight satin
pants. Where's that?
HR: It's just another uniform, I
mean, check out the guys in their
HR: So, I'm not into unity for that leather jackets and their boots.
reason because...
As a group you can be
sectioned off?
HR: Well, no, take it a step
further. Say we're all like wolves
and we're in a pack. This pack
stays very close together, we live
together, we have our own code,
our own jungle type set-up. What
happens if you break your leg
and you can't keep up with us?
You know what we will do to
you? We'll eat you. Yes, okay.
you can eat all the rich you want.
But after you eat the rich, who
you eat next will be the guy next
to you. You see, unity turns. If all
of a sudden you can't hold up all
those values and all those rigid
laws you set up, all of a sudden
you disagree, everyone will turn
on you and say, "YOU." Don't
like that happening to me. It's
very scary.
Makes sense. So what is your
course of action? What do you
do to avoid that?
HR: I don't like to belong. I think
to myself. I like to take people.
and groups and bands and
everything as individual. I don't
like Punk Rock, Heavy Metal,
Country Western. I just like the
bands I like.
Name one or six.
HR: Shit, I could name millions
of them
GG: Husker Du.
HR: Husker Du, Descendants,
Flipper, Minutemen, Sacharine
Trust.
Bands that really knock a
twinge in your heart?
HR: Yeah, Stooges, D.O.A.,
Ozzie Osborne...
GG: Velvet Underground,
Trouble Fun, Black Sabbath, old
Black Sabbath.
HR: There's a ton of groups that
we like. D.O.A. is one of my
favorite bands live, they shred. I
saw Flipper, Dead Kennedys
and Circle Jerks two Augusts
ago at the Mab. One of the best
shows I've ever seen.
It's just another uniform.
That's one thing I noticed
about you guys, you dress
casual and you're radical at
the same time.
GG: Yeah, I know. What you're
saying is, we're just trying to be
ourselves.
If you decided that you didn't
enjoy it anymore, would you
stop?
GG: Oh, of course.
HR: Yeah, the reason we would
is cuz it's not an act.
GG: We don't want people to like
our band because we happen to
cut our hair a certain way or
something.
thing. Sure, I've learned quite a
bit from being in the band,
BLACK FLAG. I've no regrets
about S.O.A. or any of that stuff.
The guys in the band are really
great guys.
don't. I think it goes back to
relating to people as individuals,
rather than saying, "That's a guy
that drinks beer."
HR: I know people that do just as
Friedman many drugs as me (which is
none) who are the biggest
burnout deadbeats I've ever
seen. Then there's guys I know
who are on straight heroin who
get a lot of stuff done. So what it
boils down to is me and Greg
(although I don't want to speak
for him) take people as individu-
als. You know what I'm saying?
Yes. Do you ever calculate
your mileage, how many miles
you've traveled, just out of
curiosity?
Greg Ginn
What's happening on the East
Coast? Could you elaborate a
little bit about the lack of drug
use among the youth culture?
I've heard that a lot of kids in
the youth culture, the Straight
Edge, don't do drugs.
HR: Well, I don't know, there
HR: Either you like the music or isn't the total non-existence of
you don't.
drug use. Just like people here in
Frisco, or in California, or in
Ohio, or Canada, or South
Africa, there's people who don't.
Then there are people who drink
and don't do anything else.
(Henry pauses and thinks about
what he has said.) I hope I didn't
culture anyone cuz that would
You're doing it because you
really enjoy yourself?
GG: That's the idea, I really
enjoy myself, and if people don't
like it, they can join the couple
million people that don't listen to
us and that's fine with us.
HR: You see, the band and
everything surrounding it, I
consider my life. All those songs
express me. That's why it's not
always fun and enjoyable.
It's important to express
yourself and let everyone
know how you feel.
HR: Life is a self-expression.
The fact that you live is your self-
expression and I'm alive, you
know. So I'm hell-bent to
express myself just as I breathe.
That's cool.
HR: I mean, it's no "hero-martyr"
thing, it's stripped down to our
emotions.
You were in S.O.A. (State of
Alert). How would you describe
yourself when you were in
S.O.A., the changes you've
gone through to where you are
now?
HR: I think I'm a little more open-
minded than I was. I get to see a
lot more people and a lot more
bands and a lot of different
attitudes, and I see a lot more
GG: D.O.A.'s playing here Mon- how people relate to each other.
day.
So obviously, you learn some-
mean to me forming someone's
opinion. I'll tell you what a lot of
started from. I was around when
a lot of that stuff gelled in
Washington, and it was just a
rejection of all the drugged out,
boozed out, wasted dudes we'd
see at rock-n-roll shows. We'd
go to see Ted Nugent and we'd
see these guys passed out on
their backs, puking, falling down
stairs. People would get drunk
and f--k with us and all that. We
said, "Well, that's dead energy."
I'm energized, I don't need that
stuff. So, therefore I'm not into it.
You know, you can have all
those ludes you want, I'll have a
coke. You know, that's how I
saw it.
it
GG: On the other hand, some
people carry that too far and say,
"Well, since I don't like to drink,
that means you shouldn't like to
drink either." Some of my best
friends and people I know who
get a lot of stuff done and that
are really doing something drink
or use drugs, and some of them
GG: Well, our van has about
170,000 miles on it. We bought it
when it had 65,000 miles on it.
This isn't the first van we've
owned.
HR: We were looking at the map
trying to figure out how many
miles we did on this last tour. We
figured 9-12,000 miles, probably
more. It was a pretty long tour, it
was like about eight and a half
weeks, with six to seven nights a
week playing. My throat got real
burnt in about the seventh week.
How about your throat now?
HR: This is about as good as it
gets, I'm singing pretty normally.
If I don't sing for about two
weeks, I raise up another octave,
I talk a lot clearer, but right now
I'm Mr. Gravel.
You're heavily into skateboard-
ing.
estly.
HR: I don't get to very much hon-
You need more equipment?
HR: I would like a new board, I
mean a blank 31" x 10", some-
thing like that. Something I can't
break too fast. I got new wheels
and trucks thanks to Stacy and
Fausto. I got my skate stolen in
Hermosa Beach by some kook.
got left outside and it got
Are you stoked with the
ripped off, which is no surprise.
coverage you got in the mag?
HR: Oh yeah, it's great. It's fan-
It
tastic.
GG: We run into so many people
who read your magazine, that's
all they talk about everywhere
we go, people are saying
THRASHER." They kinda
identify us with it.
HR: A lot of people will come up
to me and say, "Yeah, I saw your
picture in THRASHER. All right
I got to see Stacy Peralta skate, I
was really happy. Three or four
summers ago there was a
contest at Big O, the Gold Cup,
or Pre-Gold Cup, whatever it
was, it was the one Alba won but
also Olson won in total points
and won the series.
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