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MINISTRY
(From page 77) People think that the
panacea, the nirvana, the utopia is
getting a major label deal. It's not.
That's the beginning of your whole
can of worms. I found that out the
hard way and now there's no temp-
tation to go back to the other side.
I don't dig limousines."
It's this uncompromising attitude
that shapes Ministry's bleak portrait
of a big bad world ruled by money,
greed, ignorance and exploitation.
They aren't exactly the darlings of
Warner Brothers' roster and they
don't care. They've got a big
message with big music to match.
erly assimilate the new lower class,
the homeless. To them, that's an
eyesore. Still, I guarantee that just as
they sell cheap electronics to keep
the middle and lower classes safe
and sedate, they'll soon have items
for the homeless. That's just the
nature of things."
Jourgenson and his Ministry of
Truth don't just aim to smash the acid
houses or burn the discos, they've
got it in mind to break down the walls,
tear through the fences and shake
the foundations for real. Any fears,
General Jourgenson, before going
forth into battle?
"Yeah, running out of beer"
Are they merely cheap entertainment FURS
or a platform for Al to spew forth his
revolutionary dogma? Al: "We're
escapism to some. To others we
reconfirm their beliefs. Maybe we
present them with some new ideas,
stir up their shit a little. That would
be nice."
Ministry is more interested in get
ting to the root of matters. They're
purposely vague in lyric and
message. Tracks like "Thieves,"
"Burning Inside" and "Stigmata"
sputter about wildly, conveying a
mood of brooding anger and the con-
stant threat of violence. "Why not?
There's bullshit and hypocrisy all
around, from the Boy Scouts to the
Catholic Church. We sing about the
system but not in a topical, timely
manner. Someone like Noriega is a
consequence of an evil system, a
puppet, just like Ministry was in the
early days.
"Something that fascinates me is
just who is this 'evil cabal' that does
all the controlling? Bush? Barbara
Bush? The Masons? Steve Albini?
Stephen King?"
Intellectualizing rogue, pon-
tificating braggart, Jourgenson, a
one-time drug dealer, has very
definite, sharply critical viewpoints
that fuel Ministry's meaning
machine. "This is not the land of the
free. It is not a democracy. Do you
know where your taxes go? Don't pay
your taxes for a while and see just
how free you really are. Right now,
I think we're going through a new Vic
torianism: AIDS, sex is bad, drugs
are bad. Do you think that a show like
21 Narc Street could have happened
in a decade like the Sixties? I don't.
"It's a hypocritical joke, a total
facade that pot and certain drugs are
illegal. Screw that holier-than-thou at-
titude. They should legalize it and tax
it like they do everything else. They
have to-no more Stingray missiles
unless they start taxing a few bags
of herb pretty soon. They've got to
find a new way of taxing the poor.
They've got Lotto now, a decent man-
ner of taxation, so they don't have to
tax the rich. They've already raised
taxes on cheap wine-can taxed,
legalized drugs be far away?
"Damn the masses. The idiots that
are running things can't even prop-
(From page 80) bit too cynical, but I
don't think that's a bad thing."
The personal turning point that set
John Ashton on his current no-
nonsense artistic bent was an acci-
dent that threatened his ability to play
and perpetuated the wait between
full-length Furs studio efforts. "I was
really drunk and I put my hand
through some glass. It put me out of
action for about four months."
The same incident alerted Ashton
to the reality of a long-time drinking
problem, one he had to deal with
before the band could get back on
its feet. "It took me six months to cure
myself and now I'm happy. I'm not
ecstatic, but I certainly don't look at
things in the throwaway sense any-
more. I realize what I've got. It may
sound self-centered-actually, it may
sound like complete bullshit-but the
only thing that matters now is the
music. It's true. Right now we're not
sailing the crest of some commercial
success wave. We had that, but we
got really sick of it. I mean, Richard
had been looking at himself in the
mirror every morning and going. 'Oh
no! You're the guy that made Mid-
night to Midnight" He had to live with
that. I know he wasn't happy. It was
very much a veneer thing. He could
cover up with a bit of glitz and a bit
of glam. He hadn't got to that point
where he'd realized that what we'd
done before was really important."
BAD RELIGION
(From page 79
Greg G. That could be interpreted
as a real right-wing attitude.
Brett But I'm not right wing.
Greg G. It's hard to talk about
equalization without sounding like a
bleeding heart and it's very hard to
talk about praising the genetic arche-
type of greatness without sounding
extremely right wing.
Brett But when you get down it,
we're talking about individuality. We
should glorify humanity in all its dif-
ferent forms and not try to stymie
them. I think mass media stymies
and brings down, rather than trying
to raise up and enlighten people.
It seems that, whenever a group of
people is rebellious and goes away
from the norm, the media manages
to turn it into something that's
fashionable and 'cool."
Brett That's why it's important to
stay anti. As soon as the tide swings.
you turn the other way.
Jay-Exactly. All of a sudden punk
regalia is a big fashion thing. Guys
on Melrose are selling ripped jeans
for a hundred and sixty bucks.
Brett I don't think you can really
blame the corporations, though. The
corporations wouldn't be doing it if
people weren't consuming this stuff
in mass quantities. People like to be
able to sit in front of their TV, switch
on the alpha waves in their brain and
just gel. In fact, I think it's human
nature. I would like it too. That's why
I don't even turn the damn thing on.
Aren't you a teacher, Greg?
Greg G. I'm a graduate student
at UCLA studying biology and
geology-paleontology basically. I
teach undergraduates as well.
What attitudes do you see in your
students?
Greg G.-I was just thinking about
this the other day. Brett never went
to college, he graduated high school
with an equivalency exam, and I
know for a fact that he could write a
coherent treatise on something bet
ter than 99 percent of the students
going to college. I'm not saying that
he shouldn't be able to do that, but
it says one thing: the people in col
lege aren't there to educe their poten-
tial, they're there to get a diploma so
they can say, 'Here, I went through
this four years of bullshit, now hire
me for thirty thousand dollars a year'
Most people in college are just too
stupid to realize that their diploma is
probably not going to make them
much more money than another guy
who's got more smarts than them.
People look at a diploma as a sign
of success. It's an object, a symbol.
and that's why they want it.
Brett-I dropped out of high school
in the eleventh grade, took the
equivalency, and went to apply for a
job. They said, "School? I said,
'UCLA. graduate, and they said,
"Okay I mean, they never asked to
see a diploma. What, are you sup-
posed to carry it around with you?
There are definite social/politial
messages in your songs. Does this
belie an intent to change the world?
Greg G.-Hopefully what people get
out of our songs is that if you change
yourself, that's one step forward to
changing things around you. I don't
know of any songs I've written that
flat out say it, but I think that if you
try to change the world, you spend
a lot of wasted time and before you
know it, you're an old man who's led
an unhappy, bitter life.
anything poppy and confrontational.
I haven't read much lately, but
Vonnegut was a big influence on me.
Thomas Wolfe.
Greg H.-Dr. Seuss, Mr. Rogers.
Greg G.I listen to all kinds of
music, but when it comes to punk
rock, I used to love stuff like the
Germs. I like a lot of stuff from around
the turn of the decade. The Gears,
Sham 69. I used to listen to
Discharge a lot because I thought it
was so absurd. During the summer
I like to pick up an old classic novel.
Recently I read some Thomas Hardy
I've tried to read as many of the
Steinbeck novels as I can. Most of
my songs are not inspired directly by
a certain book. A lot of them are
inspired by the science writing that
I come across.
Brett I wrote a song that was
influenced by a science book-"Big
Bang" was influenced by Stephen
W. Hawking's A Brief History of Time.
The lines 'Big Bang, big crunch/You
know there's no free lunch' illustrate
his concept that there is no extra
energy in the universe. There's
nothing lost. If it goes out, it has to
collapse. It can't keep going forever.
What is Bad Religion's philoso-
phical outlook? A song like "No
Control" seems to imply an almost.
fatalistic point of view.
Greg G. No it doesn't. It just im-
plies that you should be very aware
of the things you have no control over
Particularly in the second verse when
it talks about 'History and future are
the comforts of our curiosity! That's
implying that those are endeavors
that can enrich your life if you study
them, but you're always stuck here
in the present day.
What about the line: 'If you came
to conquer you'll be king for a
day/But you too will deteriorate
and quickly fade away."
Greg G.-Everyone seems to strive
to be powerful and better than the all
rest. That line is of saying who cares
if you make it that high or that far, it's
only going to be for a very brief mo-
ment and then you're the same as
everybody else-you're dead.
What happens when you die?
Greg G. A lot of energy gets
radiated back to the sun.
Jay-Come on, he wants you to
describe it. He wants to know what
it's like
Brett Remember what it was like
before you were born? That's exact-
ly what it's like after you die. It's really
not that bad.
Do you believe people have souls?
Brett I've been trying to come up
with a belief system to satisfy me
about this question since I was about
eleven years old and I'm not done
What are your influences, music yet. I'll probably come up with a new
ally and otherwise?
Brett The Ramones, Sex Pistols,
early L.A. punk bands like Black Flag
and the Germs. D.O.A., Elvis
Costello, Rockpile, Buzzcocks,
one next week. I don't really believe
in a soul. The universe is energy.
even the mass of the universe is just
energy at rest. I think that conscious-
ness is 'stuff' just (Continued on page 104)
PIERCED EARS
SKATEROCK VOL 8
THRASHER
PIERCING TUNES FROM: BAD MUTHA GOOSE, D.I., FUNK
FACE, HOUSEQUAKE, CITIZEN X, SIX FEET UNDER,
SKATEMASTER TATE, MAD DOG THEATRE, TATTOOED LOVE
DOGS, MCM AND THE MONSTER & FLOWER LEPERDS.
Order this killer tape and other Thrasher products from page 113.